Sex talk too soon

by Dating Goddess on December 10, 2010

A new man started pursuing me and after a few calls shared how much he liked me. I had made no sexual innuendos nor teasing, so was taken aback when he said, “I want to make love to you.” I’ve heard this from a number of men and generally shake it off as they are lonely and horny and socially awkward reentering the dating world so don’t realize how off-putting that can be.

I’ve had others tell me before, during or immediately after a first date what they fantasize our doing together — and I don’t mean going to the movies! They have concocted their own movie of us in their head, one that would receive an x rating!

I gave the new man the benefit of a doubt and agreed to dinner as he had other positive attributes. He behaved himself throughout and didn’t get grabby during the parting hug.

However the next day he called to tell me how attracted he was to me, how he had trouble sleeping because he kept thinking of me, then recounting in detail his erotic dream of us. Too much information!

I’ve become flummoxed at this too-much-sex-talk-too-soon approach, but am wondering if I’m just naive. Does this really work to bed women? Are a sufficient number of women horny enough to say, “Hey baby, let’s make your dream a reality!”? Do women really find this kind of down-and-dirty talk appealing when they barely know the guy?

These men are successful, educated, articulate 50- and 60-year-olds. Are they so hungry for sex that they don’t know they are repelling the women they intend to attract? Or do they intend to attract women who are quick to jump in bed with anyone who invites them? Has midlife dating become filled with dirty old men?

Are there really only a few of us who appreciate a gentleman who treats us like a lady? I am not a prude — there is a time and place for randy talk — but before, during or right after a first date isn’t it for me. Perhaps I’m out of step with wanting to actually have a close connection with someone first.

I asked a savvy, intelligent gentleman about this and he said, “Successful guys are now aware that they are in high demand. They are being very blunt about what they want. And the fact is that real ladies are diminishing and fast chicks are multiplying. You are losing the battle. Most guys don’t know how to speak to a lady and society/technology is only making it worse.”

Sigh.

Another successful, educated business exec/lawyer and I have been communicating for a month because he’s currently on a long business trip. We haven’t been overtly flirting, just talking by IM, not even voice. Yesterday, he sent me a naked pic of himself, unsolicited. I didn’t know quite how to respond, so just said “thanks.” He wrote back an irate email saying I was hiding because I didn’t send back naked pics of myself.

A-huh.

It seems the hunt for gentlemen is like trying to find white tigers. We know they’re out there, but we have to keep weeding out the common ones.

What’s your opinion about sexually explicit talk before, during or immediately after a first date? How have you responded when someone goes “there” too soon?
______________________

For more information on what goes on in a midlife man’s brain (or what doesn‘t go on there!), get your copy of Embracing Midlife Men: Insights Into Curious Behaviors.

{ 29 comments… read them below or add one }

Julie December 10, 2010 at 12:46 am

It’s happened a couple of times – I said something right away and at the same time cross them off the list. The therapist is right I think. Online is like trying to find a needle in a haystack, now.

Richard December 10, 2010 at 3:57 am

A agree. Totally inappropriate. The benefit is: It quickly tells you who to cross off your list. It is a sign of a guy that is looking for sex, and not necessarily a relationship. Like your intelligent gentlemen said: “They are being very blunt about what they want.” You can be just as blunt on what you want: “Not them.”

“These men are successful, educated, articulate 50- and 60-year-olds.” If they are smart enough to have a successful career, they are smart enough to figure out how to act at the beginning of a relationship. However, I will admit to an a lack of knowledge about how to take an established relationship to the next level in a classy, non-threatening, way.

“Online is like trying to find a needle in a haystack, now.” I think the pool of available partners at this age creates the needle in a haystack problem. The question is: Does the on-line haystack have a materially less percentage of needles. Is it any better to spend time finding a small hidden haystack only to find out it doesn’t have any needles, or needles that do not fit your need?

lynn December 10, 2010 at 4:36 am

You said it in the first paragraph : “socially awkward.” They really don’t know how to act. Men with good social skills probably aren’t single in their 50s. Additionally, that age bracket grew up in a time period when people still met face to face, and personal ads were only for fringe-types who were into swinging and kinky sex. They think meeting someone online is a shortcut to bed, without all that getting to know you stuff. Best policy is to state up front you are looking for someone chivalrous and takes his time getting to know someone first. Ask for someone with “good morals”. Older singles are very much at risk for STDs. You don’t want to keep seeing high-risk guys who put your health and safety in danger, and frankly it is NOT your job to teach them the social skills they didn’t bother to acquire in the 50+ years they have been alive on this planet. When in doubt, raise your standards, don’t lower them, and don’t rationalize someone’s bad behavior as “they just don’t know any better.” At their age they should. If they don’t, they aren’t smart enough to be dating a Goddess. :-)

Martine December 10, 2010 at 5:26 am

I concur! Not on, unacceptable! I think that its up to women to set the standards. And if the “gentleman” concerned would rather be with someone who is easy, then he clearly doesn’t deserve to be with me or you.

katie December 10, 2010 at 6:54 am

“Perhaps I’m out of step with wanting to actually have a close connection with someone first.” Oh, DG, give yourself the credit due you! That is an utterly reasonable expectation for females. Explaining that need for emotional connection would be a useful, and potentially educational, come-back if men move too quickly in the sexual arena.

I appreciated hearing your male friend’s perspective and sadly agree that men are increasingly conditioned to be sexually greedy, which means far too forward for many women’s tastes. It doesn’t matter if this has evolutionary advantage, or is purely hedonistic; women are put in the position of having to establish boundaries from the start. Gatekeeping was far, far easier a few generations (or centuries) ago… which is evident to readers of Jane Austen.

Since you thanked the man for the sexted photo, does he assume that you appreciated receiving it? If you were offended, you would have said something else. Maybe he thinks it’s okay… until you say otherwise.

Lisa December 10, 2010 at 7:40 am

I agree, these men are way out of control!! Totally inappropriate! I have done the on-line thing on and off and really, but I have never had that experience, except maybe for the messed up divorced man I wrote about yesterday, but his suggestive e-mails were very subtle and well-written. It’s just that I didn’t know him at all!! I tend to go for the liberal arts types, so maybe that makes a difference?? Maybe power-hungry men like lawyers, executives, etc. are just used to barging their way through life. Of my all my liberal artsy male friends–single or coupled–I can’t imagine a single one who would act that way to someone they did not know.

My sister is going to marry a very nice man she met on-line, and I have friends who married who met on-line. It’s just a long shot, especially if you have a brain or sort of eclectic interests/lifestyle, etc. It’s easy to get cynical. But don’t be easy!!!!

Ellen December 10, 2010 at 9:12 am

Yikes! I’m very aware that while men might be talking to me about the weather or the arts, they might be actually thinking about having sex with me. I don’t feel any need to rationalize it – if a guy talks about it before getting to know me, it just creeps me out. I recently met a guy I was attracted to, actually felt something for the first time in a long time, and he started right in on what he wanted to do to me in bed and that turned me off. I know the expression, “Women need to feel close to have sex, men use sex to get close,” and I believe it’s true, even through I do have friends who use sex to get the guy, even in their 50s and 60s, but it’s not worth it to me. They can think about it all they want, but they have to treat me like a lady or I feel dis-respected and turned off. Be nice to us guys, and you’ll get what you want when the time is right for us and it will be worth the wait!

maria rose December 10, 2010 at 9:31 am

i am sorry you had that experience with that come-on approach of let’s do it now but the group of men we have to deal with for the majority have gotten it all their lives and are use to getting it. To them we are as the quote goes “a flavor of the day” as soon as another flavor appears we will be left hanging. I don’t mind flirting and interacting with men but i do put up a brake signal when it comes to SEX. If them want it i want commitment, no one night stand. Since i have to work harder to get their attention, my position in their eyes should be rated as high. I did all my experimenting when i was young and know what i want now. If a man wants a woman for a long term commitment he won’t make her do anything she is not ready for. I am not a trophy to hang on wall i am and will be an important part of his life. And so are you. as a parting thought how would a guy think if you made that comment to them. They don’t call women our age Cougars for nothing. But all that accomplishes is sexual release with no strings

Mitsy December 10, 2010 at 9:32 am

I agree w/what you are saying and also what your friend (in the know) was saying about successful, older men who are being so blunt about what they want. Your first guy was being inappropriate in his sex talk. An “excuse me?” with a puzzled look or sound (if on the phone) might have worked for him if you were dealing with him directly or by any means other than email. The 2nd skanky guy should have been reported to the dating site (if that’s how you met him). I’ve only had one guy send me a picture of his genitalia and that was someone who only instant messaged me when I was doing that in connection with a dating site and had had no other correspondence with the guy until that one day. I told him that I was blocking him AND reporting him to the web site. That ended that. Women need to be vigilant about the naked photos. That is obscene and probably illegal to be sending anyway.

T December 10, 2010 at 9:42 am

I think that no matter what age you are, dating is tough. You just have to hang in there. It will work out some how.

and

NEVER thank someone for something you don’t want. Of course he would send you an irate email back. You gave the impression that you enjoyed that type of attention. I think if women would call these men out on their behavior they would stop doing it.

Beth December 10, 2010 at 10:36 am

I am just getting back into the dating pool after a 25 year hiatus, and recently had a few coffee dates with someone I met at a singles dance. Aside from having to re-learn how to act on a date myself, this man was attractive but very odd (in an academic way), and I wasn’t feeling a connection with him. After every meeting, I go home feeling like, oh well, I doubt he will contact me again. Needless to say he e-mails a week later and one of the comments is something like “I think we are just friends and not going to be sex partners” with a smiley winking emoticon afterwards.
I work in an industry full of introverted men with meager social skills. I am not offended by that kind of comment, but it is off-putting. Don’t you want to get to know me first? Because after the love-making you might need something to talk about.
He has continued to e-mail me to get together, fortunately I have had a legitimate excuse to decline. But I am wondering if I should stop worrying about not being polite and just stop responding.

Mitsy December 10, 2010 at 12:41 pm

Beth, if it were me, I’d have to go back to the line you stated about not feeling a connection. For me, I know almost from the first date if I have “any” attraction for a guy or not. It’s not always just physical, but oftentimes I know that I can’t be physically romantic with someone after I’ve gone out with them. For me, I know on the 2nd date if not on the first that this will be a no-go. If I try to convince myself that attraction can grow, then I’m setting myself up for complications later. Better to end it before the guy gets his hopes up for anything more.

Maybe what he said did not really offend you, but since you didn’t have any attraction for him, it was kind of a deal-breaker for him to even speak of sex at that point in time. That would have ended any thought of future dates if it were me. I think his comment was in bad taste if nothing else.

Julie December 10, 2010 at 12:54 pm

“Online is like trying to find a needle in a haystack, now.” I think the pool of available partners at this age creates the needle in a haystack problem. The question is: Does the on-line haystack have a materially less percentage of needles. Is it any better to spend time finding a small hidden haystack only to find out it doesn’t have any needles, or needles that do not fit your need?”

Well, therapist’s opinion after seeing many a disappointed female on-line dater… is that the men who gravitate towards online are ambiguous and dont really want a real relationship.. in other words the online candy store forum appeals/attracts that type of man, in her opinion. But there are a few sincere needles in there. She said a lot of sincere available nice women online but not so many men online who are the same….and the sincere nice people seem to be suckers often times for the chumps. The chumps can spot ‘em a mile away. Thats just how it all seemed to me…. if the mid-life woman is beautiful in appearance without the typical mid-life issues -(not too many wrinkles and not much weight gain)… she has a much easier time of it.

I looked pretty good when i was doing it and then found guys who were skeptical of me – ‘why was i online if i’m so great’ kind of thing.

Mark December 10, 2010 at 4:09 pm

When the attraction is mutual, sex just happens. That’s my experience. We’re middle-aged. We’re not virgins. There isn’t a big barrier to sex other than we want to have some feelings for the potential partner. At least I do.

All these silly guys who email naked photos of themselves, who describe acts, etc., don’t realize that if the spark is there a fire is going to start soon enough.

Seriously, does any woman need a man emailing a naked photo or describing a fantasy to know that the man might be interested in sex with her? I think it’s a given that a man in a dating situation may have some interest in sex at some point.

Maybe it is a powerplay. “I’m successful. I have money. There’s a limited supply of men like me. Therefore I will send you a naked picture of myself as a way of saying we should have sex soon or else I will find another female.”

Is that how it’s supposed to work? I never tried that, ha ha. (And I never will!)

Lisa December 10, 2010 at 6:11 pm

I think all these men need to be called on their bad behavior. I have debated with friends as to whether it is appropriate to do so, say for example when the guy just disappears after a coffee date or something, certainly nothing on the sex talk level! They have generally said to just let it go, that’s life, it gives them too much power, etc. But lately it really bugs me when men think they can just do or say anything they want to. We are not teenagers. We should all have learned a few manners as we’ve aged. I think they at least need to be told somehow how rude/crude/ inappropriate, insensitive, hurtful, childish, immature, laughable…whatever…their behavior is and then never communicate with them again!!

Piccadilly December 11, 2010 at 12:01 am

I see two problems in society that have led to this problem (and it is a problem… at least as I’ve noticed from my experiences of late). First is that it seems to me a lot of men think they are the star of their own porn movie. You know the one where the guy says he wants sex and the girl is ready to hop in to bed and fulfill his wildest desires (without even knowing each others’ names). The second is that there are too many desperate women in this world who are willing to be the co-star in that porn movie (then cry to their girlfriends about the great guy they met who stopped calling them after their first date when they had such great sex).

I had one guy tell me after a little kissing at the end of the first date that he had a “pup tent” (we all know what he meant). I had no idea what to say in response. “Sorry, you’ll have to handle that yourself” was a possibility, I guess.

Karen December 11, 2010 at 4:12 am

Every man who has been a long-term friend or lover has told me: all men think about sex obsessively and constantly, even when they act like “gentlemen” and don’t say so. It’s just that men with social skills know better than to talk about it with women they are meeting for the first time or are in the early days of wooing.

I think there are also class differences regarding this in the U.S.A. A working-class guy is more likely to be direct and, uh, “earthy” in his speech, including frequently using 4-letter words even when he’s not talking about sex at all (another thing I really dislike in a man I’m dating).

I also think many socially-isolated men of all socio-economic levels end up thinking that reality TV reflects the way dating is done these days–and they get confused when they go all “jersey shore” on a woman and she ends up being repelled.

Personally, I find constant graphic sex talk pretty repellent. I recently broke up with a man I’d dated for over a year. It wasn’t the reason why we broke up–but one thing that I disliked was that he liked to talk about sex **all the frikking time** and it got really, really annoying. He’d do it in the middle of any type of discussion we’d be having– about our jobs, or when I was talking with him about my worries about my elderly father, or when we were discussing his ideas about theology and social justice–he’d do it as a kind of interruption and look all pleased when I got annoyed. I thought it was stupid and an intrusive interruption into whatever else we were talking about or doing. He also like to do it an inappropriate times–he’d whisper it (or louder) in my ear during a dinner party we were hosting for our work friends, or while we were taking my kids to the movies, or when we were shopping for groceries, or etc. I have a strong sex drive and we did “it” all the time—but I really found his insistence on trying to shock me, or shock others (since he liked to do it when other people were around), or to cross some kind of social boundaries by doing it at work etc–I really found this childish and completely a turn off It was like he was a 13 year old & even the idea of sex was something to giggle and snigger about—ugh! Very off-putting from a guy in his mid-50′s who had grown kids!

Catherine December 11, 2010 at 7:43 am

I totally agree!! It is inappropriate and unacceptable that these men feel the need to talk to us in this way so early on. I don’t know where their manners or respect for women went, but if a guy pulls this on me too early, I’m completely done. No matter how much I may have liked him. I had a guy I was casually talking to and texting say he was going to send me a naked pic, and I told him no thanks, I’m good. Well two days later at 3 in the morning, I get his nude pic. While he was admittedly hot…. I was so grossed out by the disrespect that I would never ever date him now. I wish men would learn this is not attractive!!

Mark December 11, 2010 at 3:12 pm

I wonder if it does work for some of these guys? Maybe all they want is a hookup so they are flooding inboxes of females with their photos? Maybe it’s the spam approach — a 2% success rate is enough if they are emailing 50 women.

And it is true that men think about sex a lot, but it’s fleeting thoughts. It’s often nothing more than glancing at a woman and thinking ‘She’s got a nice — ‘.

We think of other things too. Football. Beer. Pizza. That probably covers it.

Mike Lowrey December 11, 2010 at 3:24 pm

Times are very different.
Think of the images we see on TV and on-line every single day. Men’s hormones are being tugged at constantly. I can’t see a beer commercial without a Spanish woman with D cups in a mini or some stiletto wearing Blond trying to get me to open an account somewhere.
I can’t look at TV for 15 min without having a hot chick trying to sell me something.

Society has changed a lot in the past 20 years.
Men are now used to instant gratification and variety.
But that doesn’t mean you have to accept that as a woman.
But you do need to be prepared to wait for that needle to appear, no matter how long it takes. There’s a lot of hay in the world right now.

Technology has also changed the game. Women who have never even met me, send me pics via IM & email and I don’t even have to move out my house or say hello to them. With Facebook, MySpace, Twitter, the Internet in general guys can now spend their days morning talking to women in NY. Afternoons speaking to a women in Europe and nights on Skype with women in Asia, all while dating a woman that lives a few blocks over.

When you really think about that… it opens a whole new view to the world of dating. I’m not saying this behavior is right, I’m just saying it’s a reality of today.

It is very true that most men will think about sex 97% of his day. Each and every day. Only certain guys are strong enough to control how they behave while under this constant pressure to have sex. Guys don’t want to think about sex all day but testosterone is a very strong hormone. Most women think of it as something Men should be able to control, but until you’ve experienced the beast, you really can’t understand it.

This doesn’t excuse how men behave toward women at all. Either they don’t have the ability to control it or have lost the will to want to control it. I don’t get angry at dudes like that, in fact I feel sorry for them.
I just go out there and try to be the best person I can be and hope like hell that the beast doesn’t overpower me one day.

Richard December 14, 2010 at 4:43 am

“Most women think of it as something Men should be able to control, but until you’ve experienced the beast, you really can’t understand it. ”

Reminds me of the anecdotes of women on testosterone therapy. They become as horny as guys. Since the intensity of the urges are new to them, it takes a lot more effort for them to control the urges.

Mark December 31, 2010 at 8:49 am

I agree. Being relatively new (less than a year) to the dating world after a 21-year marriage, I am somewhat surprised to see how aggressive men and women can be in the 45 to 55-year-old range when it comes to sex talk very early in a relationship. And I’ll make a point that it appears equally from men and women at times. One thought is that the whole Internet dating scene so compresses the courting ritual because we share so much information with one another so quickly, that the topic of sex comes up early and at times that are often not the greatest settings. I’ve tried to be adult, professional, and calm about the topic, often bringing it up early in a relationship – maybe even on a first date – but more in the vain of, “Just to clear the air about an often uncomfortable topic, I like sex just as much as any other red-blooded man. I consider it an important part of any long term, committed relationship. I also feel strongly that sex too early in a relationship kills it. I just want to get this out on the table so if I don’t make some aggressive move early it’s not that I’m not attracted to you in fact it’s just the opposite. I find you attractive to the point of not wanting to damage a potentially good thing by going too fast and getting ahead of ourselves.” More than once I’ve heard a big sigh of relief and we have a better time because of it. When the time is right, it’s right, and it’s not forced, expected, or demanded … it just happens on a more meaningful timeline.

PDX _Girl January 2, 2011 at 9:36 pm

I think I’m one of the few women that actually really enjoys sexting :( It’s safe “sex” and I don’t have to leave the comfort of my living room ;)

Dave777 January 13, 2011 at 3:29 pm

I have been with several women in their 40′s & 50′s who, very early on, say “Hey baby, let’s make your / my dream a reality”. These women were either 1 – just like the men you mentioned in the first paragraph – lonely and horny or 2 – just horny.

diana November 9, 2011 at 10:24 am

I come from a different planet: i Love Sex and find men who talk about sex conferent and apealing even better if they talk about sex on the first date. i have had both situations: a guy that takes his time to talk about sex to find out
he is great in bed- A guy that talks right away about sex to find out he sucks in bed and the opposite- yes! people i have slept around. It’s in my blood passionate high libido latina woman- Love Sex and love men that talk about sex openly, conferent- including dirty talk- Sex and talking about Sex feels Liberating. Who wants to talk about problems? Religion? Politics?

Elizabeth February 27, 2013 at 6:32 pm

I have enjoyed reading all the comments above.. found this website because I have had a similar experience with a guy on an online site. He is only 32 ( I am 43) and from the beginning has been very sexually graphic. I have played along (by not saying anything about his behavior) mostly just to see how far he would take things. I have even tried to divert the conversation with no such luck. I have written down many good responses from the things everyone has said in the above posts. I do think it is important, as women (men too). to draw boundaries when we begin to feel uncomfortable and disrespected. I think I need to date Mark;) I really like what he said about not rushing things too early at the risk of jeopardizing the potential of the relationship. It all comes down to mutual respect for each other and demonstrating that in a mature, respectable way. Dirty talk and even sexting can be fun if done within the confines of an established relationship and both people are participating willingly.

Elizabeth March 9, 2013 at 4:12 am

I’ve just had this kind of experience with a guy who first commented I was too quick to ask for a meeting earlier rather than later (I like to get real as quickly as possible so as to avoid what then happened). So, being chastised for being too upfront, this man then suggested he could be my toy boy! I said, “What?” I was too fast in asking to meet, but now he’s my “toy boy”? Then followed a stream of sexual description of what he’d like to do to me. I cancelled my membership of the online site and refused any more contact with this man, who, until then, would not take no for an answer. Which bit, do such men not get? Why do they think we are interested? I’m certainly not.

Angela August 17, 2013 at 11:52 pm

I am currently experiencing this. I have had a couple of dates with a man I met online. I am 49 and he is 45. There is a strong mutual attraction between us and we have majorly flirted, but I am still not ready to hop into bed with him as I want to find out more about him first and see if his ‘sweet talk’ really has meaning. We have both stated that we are looking for a relationship so to my mind, what’s the harm in holding back a little and having the slow burn?

He has told me he has a high sex drive, which, if I am honest, scares me a little as it could be the hormones talking and I have been direct and told him I want to wait. I guess the proof will be if he is prepared to wait…and if not, he’s probably not the one for me. I am not playing games, or trying to drive him crazy. I just want to find out what kind of a person he is before I get in too deep. I think a lot of people wreck their chances of a good relationship because they let the firework explode before it’s left the ground!

creepycreepenstein February 9, 2014 at 8:58 am

What did I do? I sent a guy the link to this perfectly worded opinion. Thanks Dating Goddess, for saying exactly what i wanted to say.

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